Transcript. This oral history with Norman Sepenuk was conducted by Jeffrey Batchelor at Sepenuk's home in Black Butte, Oregon, from March 5-7, 1993, and on September 22, 2002. The interview was conducted in four sessions.

In the first interview session, conducted on March 5, 1993, Sepenuk discusses his family background and early life in New Jersey, including his education. He then talks about his experience at Princeton University, including some of his professors and classes, his involvement in the ROTC, and his social life. He also talks about discrimination he faced as a Jewish person. He then talks about his service in the U.S. Army from 1954 to 1956. He talks about his experience at Harvard Law School, including some of his professors, classes, and classmates. He describes practicing law in Jersey City after his graduation in 1959.

In the second interview session, conducted on March 6, 1993, Sepenuk discusses leaving his law practice to work for the Department of Justice Tax Division in Washington, D.C. He talks about the relationship between the Department of Justice and the U.S. Supreme Court, cases he worked on, lawyers he worked with, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his marriage to Barbara Hammond. He then talks about being called to Oregon in 1965 to assist on a case. He describes relocating to Oregon and working as an assistant U.S. attorney from 1965 to 1972, with a focus on white collar crime. He talks about his fellow assistant U.S. attorneys, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He particularly talks about his relationships with Judge Gus Solomon, Judge Robert Belloni, and U.S. Attorney Sid Lezak. He also talks about attending the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard from 1968 to 1969, and later returning to Washington, D.C., in 1971 as part of the Brown Commission. He then talks about leaving the U.S. attorney's office in 1972 and entering private practice in Portland, Oregon. He discusses focusing on white collar crime, describes his legal strategies, and compares the work of a prosecutor to that of a defense lawyer. He talks about cases he worked on and judges he argued before.

In the third interview session, conducted on March 7, 1993, Sepenuk continues to discuss working as a defense attorney focused on white collar crime, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his involvement in various legal associations, changes in the legal field during his career, and sentencing guidelines, particularly with regard to drug related crimes. He discusses his health, his hobbies, his wife and children, and their careers. He closes the session by reflecting on his career and achievements, and by sharing his plans for the future.

In the fourth and final interview session, conducted on September 22, 2002, Sepenuk revisits the topic of judges that he argued before, including Helen Frye, Owen Panner, and Malcolm Marsh. He also talks about some of the cases he worked on. He then talks about his activities since the previous session, recorded a decade earlier, including his work as a volunteer lawyer in post-Communist countries, trying a case at The Hague, and cases he worked on in Oregon. He also revisits the topic of sentencing guidelines. He closes the interview by talking about his plans for the future.

Tape 1, Side 1. In the first interview session, conducted on March 5, 1993, Sepenuk discusses his family background and early life in New Jersey, including his education. He then talks about his experience at Princeton University, including some of his professors and classes, his involvement in the ROTC, and his social life. He also talks about discrimination he faced as a Jewish person. He then talks about his service in the U.S. Army from 1954 to 1956. He talks about his experience at Harvard Law School, including some of his professors, classes, and classmates. He describes practicing law in Jersey City after his graduation in 1959.

Tape 1, Side 1. In the first interview session, conducted on March 5, 1993, Sepenuk discusses his family background and early life in New Jersey, including his education. He then talks about his experience at Princeton University, including some of his professors and classes, his involvement in the ROTC, and his social life. He also talks about discrimination he faced as a Jewish person. He then talks about his service in the U.S. Army from 1954 to 1956. He talks about his experience at Harvard Law School, including some of his professors, classes, and classmates. He describes practicing law in Jersey City after his graduation in 1959.

Tape 4, Side 1. In the second interview session, conducted on March 6, 1993, Sepenuk discusses leaving his law practice to work for the Department of Justice Tax Division in Washington, D.C. He talks about the relationship between the Department of Justice and the U.S. Supreme Court, cases he worked on, lawyers he worked with, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his marriage to Barbara Hammond. He then talks about being called to Oregon in 1965 to assist on a case. He describes relocating to Oregon and working as an assistant U.S. attorney from 1965 to 1972, with a focus on white collar crime. He talks about his fellow assistant U.S. attorneys, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He particularly talks about his relationships with Judge Gus Solomon, Judge Robert Belloni, and U.S. Attorney Sid Lezak. He also talks about attending the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard from 1968 to 1969, and later returning to Washington, D.C., in 1971 as part of the Brown Commission. He then talks about leaving the U.S. attorney's office in 1972 and entering private practice in Portland, Oregon. He discusses focusing on white collar crime, describes his legal strategies, and compares the work of a prosecutor to that of a defense lawyer. He talks about cases he worked on and judges he argued before.

Tape 3, Side 1. In the second interview session, conducted on March 6, 1993, Sepenuk discusses leaving his law practice to work for the Department of Justice Tax Division in Washington, D.C. He talks about the relationship between the Department of Justice and the U.S. Supreme Court, cases he worked on, lawyers he worked with, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his marriage to Barbara Hammond. He then talks about being called to Oregon in 1965 to assist on a case. He describes relocating to Oregon and working as an assistant U.S. attorney from 1965 to 1972, with a focus on white collar crime. He talks about his fellow assistant U.S. attorneys, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He particularly talks about his relationships with Judge Gus Solomon, Judge Robert Belloni, and U.S. Attorney Sid Lezak. He also talks about attending the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard from 1968 to 1969, and later returning to Washington, D.C., in 1971 as part of the Brown Commission. He then talks about leaving the U.S. attorney's office in 1972 and entering private practice in Portland, Oregon. He discusses focusing on white collar crime, describes his legal strategies, and compares the work of a prosecutor to that of a defense lawyer. He talks about cases he worked on and judges he argued before.

Tape 4, Side 2. In the second interview session, conducted on March 6, 1993, Sepenuk discusses leaving his law practice to work for the Department of Justice Tax Division in Washington, D.C. He talks about the relationship between the Department of Justice and the U.S. Supreme Court, cases he worked on, lawyers he worked with, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his marriage to Barbara Hammond. He then talks about being called to Oregon in 1965 to assist on a case. He describes relocating to Oregon and working as an assistant U.S. attorney from 1965 to 1972, with a focus on white collar crime. He talks about his fellow assistant U.S. attorneys, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He particularly talks about his relationships with Judge Gus Solomon, Judge Robert Belloni, and U.S. Attorney Sid Lezak. He also talks about attending the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard from 1968 to 1969, and later returning to Washington, D.C., in 1971 as part of the Brown Commission. He then talks about leaving the U.S. attorney's office in 1972 and entering private practice in Portland, Oregon. He discusses focusing on white collar crime, describes his legal strategies, and compares the work of a prosecutor to that of a defense lawyer. He talks about cases he worked on and judges he argued before.

Tape 2, Side 2. In the second interview session, conducted on March 6, 1993, Sepenuk discusses leaving his law practice to work for the Department of Justice Tax Division in Washington, D.C. He talks about the relationship between the Department of Justice and the U.S. Supreme Court, cases he worked on, lawyers he worked with, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his marriage to Barbara Hammond. He then talks about being called to Oregon in 1965 to assist on a case. He describes relocating to Oregon and working as an assistant U.S. attorney from 1965 to 1972, with a focus on white collar crime. He talks about his fellow assistant U.S. attorneys, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He particularly talks about his relationships with Judge Gus Solomon, Judge Robert Belloni, and U.S. Attorney Sid Lezak. He also talks about attending the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard from 1968 to 1969, and later returning to Washington, D.C., in 1971 as part of the Brown Commission. He then talks about leaving the U.S. attorney's office in 1972 and entering private practice in Portland, Oregon. He discusses focusing on white collar crime, describes his legal strategies, and compares the work of a prosecutor to that of a defense lawyer. He talks about cases he worked on and judges he argued before.

Tape 3, Side 2. In the second interview session, conducted on March 6, 1993, Sepenuk discusses leaving his law practice to work for the Department of Justice Tax Division in Washington, D.C. He talks about the relationship between the Department of Justice and the U.S. Supreme Court, cases he worked on, lawyers he worked with, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his marriage to Barbara Hammond. He then talks about being called to Oregon in 1965 to assist on a case. He describes relocating to Oregon and working as an assistant U.S. attorney from 1965 to 1972, with a focus on white collar crime. He talks about his fellow assistant U.S. attorneys, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He particularly talks about his relationships with Judge Gus Solomon, Judge Robert Belloni, and U.S. Attorney Sid Lezak. He also talks about attending the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard from 1968 to 1969, and later returning to Washington, D.C., in 1971 as part of the Brown Commission. He then talks about leaving the U.S. attorney's office in 1972 and entering private practice in Portland, Oregon. He discusses focusing on white collar crime, describes his legal strategies, and compares the work of a prosecutor to that of a defense lawyer. He talks about cases he worked on and judges he argued before.

Tape 2, Side 1. In the second interview session, conducted on March 6, 1993, Sepenuk discusses leaving his law practice to work for the Department of Justice Tax Division in Washington, D.C. He talks about the relationship between the Department of Justice and the U.S. Supreme Court, cases he worked on, lawyers he worked with, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his marriage to Barbara Hammond. He then talks about being called to Oregon in 1965 to assist on a case. He describes relocating to Oregon and working as an assistant U.S. attorney from 1965 to 1972, with a focus on white collar crime. He talks about his fellow assistant U.S. attorneys, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He particularly talks about his relationships with Judge Gus Solomon, Judge Robert Belloni, and U.S. Attorney Sid Lezak. He also talks about attending the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard from 1968 to 1969, and later returning to Washington, D.C., in 1971 as part of the Brown Commission. He then talks about leaving the U.S. attorney's office in 1972 and entering private practice in Portland, Oregon. He discusses focusing on white collar crime, describes his legal strategies, and compares the work of a prosecutor to that of a defense lawyer. He talks about cases he worked on and judges he argued before.

Tape 5, Side 2. In the third interview session, conducted on March 7, 1993, Sepenuk continues to discuss working as a defense attorney focused on white collar crime, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his involvement in various legal associations, changes in the legal field during his career, and sentencing guidelines, particularly with regard to drug related crimes. He discusses his health, his hobbies, his wife and children, and their careers. He closes the session by reflecting on his career and achievements, and by sharing his plans for the future.

Tape 5, Side 1. In the third interview session, conducted on March 7, 1993, Sepenuk continues to discuss working as a defense attorney focused on white collar crime, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his involvement in various legal associations, changes in the legal field during his career, and sentencing guidelines, particularly with regard to drug related crimes. He discusses his health, his hobbies, his wife and children, and their careers. He closes the session by reflecting on his career and achievements, and by sharing his plans for the future.

Tape 6, Side 1. In the third interview session, conducted on March 7, 1993, Sepenuk continues to discuss working as a defense attorney focused on white collar crime, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his involvement in various legal associations, changes in the legal field during his career, and sentencing guidelines, particularly with regard to drug related crimes. He discusses his health, his hobbies, his wife and children, and their careers. He closes the session by reflecting on his career and achievements, and by sharing his plans for the future.

Tape 6, Side 2. In the third interview session, conducted on March 7, 1993, Sepenuk continues to discuss working as a defense attorney focused on white collar crime, cases he worked on, and judges he argued before. He also talks about his involvement in various legal associations, changes in the legal field during his career, and sentencing guidelines, particularly with regard to drug related crimes. He discusses his health, his hobbies, his wife and children, and their careers. He closes the session by reflecting on his career and achievements, and by sharing his plans for the future.

Tape 7, Side 1. In the fourth and final interview session, conducted on September 22, 2002, Sepenuk revisits the topic of judges that he argued before, including Helen Frye, Owen Panner, and Malcolm Marsh. He also talks about some of the cases he worked on. He then talks about his activities since the previous session, recorded a decade earlier, including his work as a volunteer lawyer in post-Communist countries, trying a case at The Hague, and cases he worked on in Oregon. He also revisits the topic of sentencing guidelines. He closes the interview by talking about his plans for the future.

Tape 8, Side 1. In the fourth and final interview session, conducted on September 22, 2002, Sepenuk revisits the topic of judges that he argued before, including Helen Frye, Owen Panner, and Malcolm Marsh. He also talks about some of the cases he worked on. He then talks about his activities since the previous session, recorded a decade earlier, including his work as a volunteer lawyer in post-Communist countries, trying a case at The Hague, and cases he worked on in Oregon. He also revisits the topic of sentencing guidelines. He closes the interview by talking about his plans for the future.

Tape 9, Side 1. In the fourth and final interview session, conducted on September 22, 2002, Sepenuk revisits the topic of judges that he argued before, including Helen Frye, Owen Panner, and Malcolm Marsh. He also talks about some of the cases he worked on. He then talks about his activities since the previous session, recorded a decade earlier, including his work as a volunteer lawyer in post-Communist countries, trying a case at The Hague, and cases he worked on in Oregon. He also revisits the topic of sentencing guidelines. He closes the interview by talking about his plans for the future.

Transcript. This oral history interview with Jacob B. Tanzer was conducted by Peter C. Richter from October 5, 2005, to April 4, 2006 as part of the United States District Court Oral History Project. The interview was conducted in two sessions, and a transcript is available.

In the first interview session, conducted on October 5, 2005, Tanzer discusses his family background and early life in Portland, Oregon. He briefly talks about his college experiences at the University of Oregon, Stanford University, and Reed College. He then talks about studying law at the University of Oregon, including his part-time jobs. He discusses practicing law in Portland and deciding to pursue a career as a public prosecutor instead. He talks about working for the U.S. Department of Justice in the organized crime division during the John F. Kennedy administration, particularly his work on the case of civil rights workers murdered in Mississippi in 1964. Tanzer discusses his reasons for leaving the U.S. Department of Justice that same year to return to Portland as a Multnomah County deputy district attorney. He talks about his fellow prosecutors, defense lawyers he argued against, and some of the judges he argued before. He discusses his appointment as Oregon's first solicitor general in 1969 and describes some of the cases he prosecuted. He also talks about serving as director of the Oregon Department of Human Services from its inception in 1971 until 1973. He describes the types of social welfare programs he administered, discusses fighting budget cuts, and talks about working with Governor Tom McCall. He also speaks at length about volunteering with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law in Mississippi for one month in 1967 and describes many of the cases he worked on. Tanzer discusses serving on the Oregon Court of Appeals from 1973 to 1980, and on the Oregon Supreme Court from 1980 to 1982. He talks about some of the judges he served with, particularly Hans Linde.

In the second interview session, conducted on April 4, 2006, Tanzer continues to discuss serving on the Oregon Supreme Court. He speaks further about serving on the bench with Hans Linde, and talks about some of the opinions he wrote. He discusses how the procedures of the court changed during his tenure, the relationship between the legislative and judicial branches of state government, and his return to private legal practice in 1983. He closes the interview by sharing advice for aspiring lawyers.

Tape 1, Side 1. In the first interview session, conducted on October 5, 2005, Tanzer discusses his family background and early life in Portland, Oregon. He briefly talks about his college experiences at the University of Oregon, Stanford University, and Reed College. He then talks about studying law at the University of Oregon, including his part-time jobs. He discusses practicing law in Portland and deciding to pursue a career as a public prosecutor instead. He talks about working for the U.S. Department of Justice in the organized crime division during the John F. Kennedy administration, particularly his work on the case of civil rights workers murdered in Mississippi in 1964. Tanzer discusses his reasons for leaving the U.S. Department of Justice that same year to return to Portland as a Multnomah County deputy district attorney. He talks about his fellow prosecutors, defense lawyers he argued against, and some of the judges he argued before. He discusses his appointment as Oregon's first solicitor general in 1969 and describes some of the cases he prosecuted. He also talks about serving as director of the Oregon Department of Human Services from its inception in 1971 until 1973. He describes the types of social welfare programs he administered, discusses fighting budget cuts, and talks about working with Governor Tom McCall. He also speaks at length about volunteering with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law in Mississippi for one month in 1967 and describes many of the cases he worked on. Tanzer discusses serving on the Oregon Court of Appeals from 1973 to 1980, and on the Oregon Supreme Court from 1980 to 1982. He talks about some of the judges he served with, particularly Hans Linde.

Tape 2, Side 1. In the first interview session, conducted on October 5, 2005, Tanzer discusses his family background and early life in Portland, Oregon. He briefly talks about his college experiences at the University of Oregon, Stanford University, and Reed College. He then talks about studying law at the University of Oregon, including his part-time jobs. He discusses practicing law in Portland and deciding to pursue a career as a public prosecutor instead. He talks about working for the U.S. Department of Justice in the organized crime division during the John F. Kennedy administration, particularly his work on the case of civil rights workers murdered in Mississippi in 1964. Tanzer discusses his reasons for leaving the U.S. Department of Justice that same year to return to Portland as a Multnomah County deputy district attorney. He talks about his fellow prosecutors, defense lawyers he argued against, and some of the judges he argued before. He discusses his appointment as Oregon's first solicitor general in 1969 and describes some of the cases he prosecuted. He also talks about serving as director of the Oregon Department of Human Services from its inception in 1971 until 1973. He describes the types of social welfare programs he administered, discusses fighting budget cuts, and talks about working with Governor Tom McCall. He also speaks at length about volunteering with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law in Mississippi for one month in 1967 and describes many of the cases he worked on. Tanzer discusses serving on the Oregon Court of Appeals from 1973 to 1980, and on the Oregon Supreme Court from 1980 to 1982. He talks about some of the judges he served with, particularly Hans Linde.

Tape 2, Side 2. In the first interview session, conducted on October 5, 2005, Tanzer discusses his family background and early life in Portland, Oregon. He briefly talks about his college experiences at the University of Oregon, Stanford University, and Reed College. He then talks about studying law at the University of Oregon, including his part-time jobs. He discusses practicing law in Portland and deciding to pursue a career as a public prosecutor instead. He talks about working for the U.S. Department of Justice in the organized crime division during the John F. Kennedy administration, particularly his work on the case of civil rights workers murdered in Mississippi in 1964. Tanzer discusses his reasons for leaving the U.S. Department of Justice that same year to return to Portland as a Multnomah County deputy district attorney. He talks about his fellow prosecutors, defense lawyers he argued against, and some of the judges he argued before. He discusses his appointment as Oregon's first solicitor general in 1969 and describes some of the cases he prosecuted. He also talks about serving as director of the Oregon Department of Human Services from its inception in 1971 until 1973. He describes the types of social welfare programs he administered, discusses fighting budget cuts, and talks about working with Governor Tom McCall. He also speaks at length about volunteering with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law in Mississippi for one month in 1967 and describes many of the cases he worked on. Tanzer discusses serving on the Oregon Court of Appeals from 1973 to 1980, and on the Oregon Supreme Court from 1980 to 1982. He talks about some of the judges he served with, particularly Hans Linde.

Tape 3, Side 1. In the first interview session, conducted on October 5, 2005, Tanzer discusses his family background and early life in Portland, Oregon. He briefly talks about his college experiences at the University of Oregon, Stanford University, and Reed College. He then talks about studying law at the University of Oregon, including his part-time jobs. He discusses practicing law in Portland and deciding to pursue a career as a public prosecutor instead. He talks about working for the U.S. Department of Justice in the organized crime division during the John F. Kennedy administration, particularly his work on the case of civil rights workers murdered in Mississippi in 1964. Tanzer discusses his reasons for leaving the U.S. Department of Justice that same year to return to Portland as a Multnomah County deputy district attorney. He talks about his fellow prosecutors, defense lawyers he argued against, and some of the judges he argued before. He discusses his appointment as Oregon's first solicitor general in 1969 and describes some of the cases he prosecuted. He also talks about serving as director of the Oregon Department of Human Services from its inception in 1971 until 1973. He describes the types of social welfare programs he administered, discusses fighting budget cuts, and talks about working with Governor Tom McCall. He also speaks at length about volunteering with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law in Mississippi for one month in 1967 and describes many of the cases he worked on. Tanzer discusses serving on the Oregon Court of Appeals from 1973 to 1980, and on the Oregon Supreme Court from 1980 to 1982. He talks about some of the judges he served with, particularly Hans Linde.

Tape 1, Side 2. In the first interview session, conducted on October 5, 2005, Tanzer discusses his family background and early life in Portland, Oregon. He briefly talks about his college experiences at the University of Oregon, Stanford University, and Reed College. He then talks about studying law at the University of Oregon, including his part-time jobs. He discusses practicing law in Portland and deciding to pursue a career as a public prosecutor instead. He talks about working for the U.S. Department of Justice in the organized crime division during the John F. Kennedy administration, particularly his work on the case of civil rights workers murdered in Mississippi in 1964. Tanzer discusses his reasons for leaving the U.S. Department of Justice that same year to return to Portland as a Multnomah County deputy district attorney. He talks about his fellow prosecutors, defense lawyers he argued against, and some of the judges he argued before. He discusses his appointment as Oregon's first solicitor general in 1969 and describes some of the cases he prosecuted. He also talks about serving as director of the Oregon Department of Human Services from its inception in 1971 until 1973. He describes the types of social welfare programs he administered, discusses fighting budget cuts, and talks about working with Governor Tom McCall. He also speaks at length about volunteering with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law in Mississippi for one month in 1967 and describes many of the cases he worked on. Tanzer discusses serving on the Oregon Court of Appeals from 1973 to 1980, and on the Oregon Supreme Court from 1980 to 1982. He talks about some of the judges he served with, particularly Hans Linde.

Tape 3, Side 2. In the first interview session, conducted on October 5, 2005, Tanzer discusses his family background and early life in Portland, Oregon. He briefly talks about his college experiences at the University of Oregon, Stanford University, and Reed College. He then talks about studying law at the University of Oregon, including his part-time jobs. He discusses practicing law in Portland and deciding to pursue a career as a public prosecutor instead. He talks about working for the U.S. Department of Justice in the organized crime division during the John F. Kennedy administration, particularly his work on the case of civil rights workers murdered in Mississippi in 1964. Tanzer discusses his reasons for leaving the U.S. Department of Justice that same year to return to Portland as a Multnomah County deputy district attorney. He talks about his fellow prosecutors, defense lawyers he argued against, and some of the judges he argued before. He discusses his appointment as Oregon's first solicitor general in 1969 and describes some of the cases he prosecuted. He also talks about serving as director of the Oregon Department of Human Services from its inception in 1971 until 1973. He describes the types of social welfare programs he administered, discusses fighting budget cuts, and talks about working with Governor Tom McCall. He also speaks at length about volunteering with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law in Mississippi for one month in 1967 and describes many of the cases he worked on. Tanzer discusses serving on the Oregon Court of Appeals from 1973 to 1980, and on the Oregon Supreme Court from 1980 to 1982. He talks about some of the judges he served with, particularly Hans Linde.

Tape 4, Side 1. In the second interview session, conducted on April 4, 2006, Tanzer continues to discuss serving on the Oregon Supreme Court. He speaks further about serving on the bench with Hans Linde, and talks about some of the opinions he wrote. He discusses how the procedures of the court changed during his tenure, the relationship between the legislative and judicial branches of state government, and his return to private legal practice in 1983. He closes the interview by sharing advice for aspiring lawyers.

Tape 5, Side 1. In the second interview session, conducted on April 4, 2006, Tanzer continues to discuss serving on the Oregon Supreme Court. He speaks further about serving on the bench with Hans Linde, and talks about some of the opinions he wrote. He discusses how the procedures of the court changed during his tenure, the relationship between the legislative and judicial branches of state government, and his return to private legal practice in 1983. He closes the interview by sharing advice for aspiring lawyers.

Tape 4, Side 2. In the second interview session, conducted on April 4, 2006, Tanzer continues to discuss serving on the Oregon Supreme Court. He speaks further about serving on the bench with Hans Linde, and talks about some of the opinions he wrote. He discusses how the procedures of the court changed during his tenure, the relationship between the legislative and judicial branches of state government, and his return to private legal practice in 1983. He closes the interview by sharing advice for aspiring lawyers.